New To SCD

[johnshade]

Some SCD's suggestions run counter to IF thinking. It's up to you really how you want to proceed. It may be helpful to get the SCD locked in really really well and then bring the IF at that point.

In fairness, I think the 4hb book came out a bit before IF really took off. Tim mentions it favorably I believe wrt longevity but not weightloss.

the 24hr fasts, are no more ambitious in my opinion. Listen, I crossfit four days a week and I fast 5 days and don't have any trouble. I have be careful to get my calories in the window but I almost never eat before 1pm and one or two days a week I eat only at dinner.

I think you'll find that after doing IF for a while your body will self regulate your intake, cravings etc.

If you are like my most clients you probably need to build muscle as much as lose fat. Leangains is optimal for this but again, I personally don't like overthinking it that much and by his own admission Martin is really primarily concerned with leanness and not performance.

In short. Do SCD the way its layed out first and foremost to see if its right. Then bring in the IF stuff to augment...AND lift heavy things often.

[Opticks]

Thanks for the reply, I had the first page bookmarked and didn't see this until just now . . .

I think I am only going to do the 24hr fast once a week, after cheat day. Any more I think would be disastrous. My idea is to stick mainly with SCD and this little bit of fasting until I get down to the last mile, and then was thinking about skipping the last mile and going straight to leangains. The trouble with that is that I would have to go and join a gym for the first time in my life. I like the idea of having muscle definition, but the way martin and those other clients on his site look is imo disgusting. Having legs that big, etc. is ridiculous. Is there any kind of middle ground with leangains?

Also, martin talks about fasted training, which I have no intention of doing, but had planned to do 45-60 min walks during the optimal 12-18 hour window. Is any more than 1 walk (spaced apart) in this window frowned upon? I was possibly going to walk for 50 mins in the morning, afternoon, and night. I assumed that since I was fasting, and those walks pulled from subcutaneous body fat for energy, that it would be worth my while to put the extra time in and get my money's worth every week. Is this a bad idea? I'm talking LOW INTENSITY walking, like total moseying around - old people slow. I have some vocabulary stuff that I listen to, so it's very beneficial for me to take my sweet-ass time at a very slow pace and listen to the tapes.

[johnshade]

Hey Man, I happen to be online so I'll respond to this now.

I think you're taking the right approach. Don't confuse things too much for now and the one 24hr fast, post cheat day is a good way to stay in the game.

You will most likely find, most do, as you get closer to the last mile that you're lacking muscle definition more than you'd suspected. That said, I agree that many of martin's clients are much too lean. There are things about his approach that I don't particularly love but understand that leangains is ABOUT getting lean. Fasted training is a big part of that program. I do fasted training and I love it. Not for the fat loss benefits, which are no longer my primary goal but rather for the feeling of it. I don't do it everyday but as long I don't do any long arduous metcons, I'm fine. The walking you described is called NEPA(non exercise physical activity) and most IF protocols suggest doing some NEPA activity late in the fast before your first meal.

Martin only suggest lifting three days a week and his protocol is very basic but effective.

So yeah...for now just keep on the path and I'd imagine your goals will change a bit over time, they usually do but to answer your question...Not everyone who does IF gets down to 5-8% bodyfat and trust me, you won't "accidentally" end up wandering into that realm.

[Opticks]

Hey Man, I happen to be online so I'll respond to this now.

I think you're taking the right approach. Don't confuse things too much for now and the one 24hr fast, post cheat day is a good way to stay in the game.

You will most likely find, most do, as you get closer to the last mile that you're lacking muscle definition more than you'd suspected. That said, I agree that many of martin's clients are much too lean. There are things about his approach that I don't particularly love but understand that leangains is ABOUT getting lean. Fasted training is a big part of that program. I do fasted training and I love it. Not for the fat loss benefits, which are no longer my primary goal but rather for the feeling of it. I don't do it everyday but as long I don't do any long arduous metcons, I'm fine. The walking you described is called NEPA(non exercise physical activity) and most IF protocols suggest doing some NEPA activity late in the fast before your first meal.

Martin only suggest lifting three days a week and his protocol is very basic but effective.

So yeah...for now just keep on the path and I'd imagine your goals will change a bit over time, they usually do but to answer your question...Not everyone who does IF gets down to 5-8% bodyfat and trust me, you won't "accidentally" end up wandering into that realm.

Hey! Thanks for the quick reply! I def will continue with this SCD protocol until it stops working for me (aka 10-12% BF). I would like to be very lean, the problem with martin's, imo, training is the tree truk thighs and stuff that his clients have. I don't mind building some muscle or being super ripped, but at the same time I don't want to be a professional bodybuilder or look like one.

I do miss lifting and exercise that I was getting used to before I started SCD, and the leangains approach in general. I like their meal plans a lot more - it seems a lot more enjoyable than what I am eating now on SCD. I make frittatas and stuff like that, but chocolate protein pudding with whipped cream and other stuff sounds amazing. Plus I think they have beers now and again. That really is a diet I can live with, because right now I feel really restricted, and more and more is feeling like a "diet" instead of a healthy lifestyle.

[justhamade]

I would like to be very lean, the problem with martin's, imo, training is the tree truk thighs and stuff that his clients have. I don't mind building some muscle or being super ripped, but at the same time I don't want to be a professional bodybuilder or look like one.

You won't, the amount of work they do to look like that is huge. Martin's protocol would work very well for you.

I do miss lifting and exercise that I was getting used to before I started SCD, and the leangains approach in general.

I would bet you would have better success with body recomposition if you lift as apposed to walk. For most people the best workout protocol would be 1-2 times a week lift heavy and slow 1-2 a week HIIT. IE occam's plus the kiwi workout.

I like their meal plans a lot more - it seems a lot more enjoyable than what I am eating now on SCD. I make frittatas and stuff like that, but chocolate protein pudding with whipped cream and other stuff sounds amazing. Plus I think they have beers now and again. That really is a diet I can live with, because right now I feel really restricted, and more and more is feeling like a "diet" instead of a healthy lifestyle.

The protein pudding and other stuff is not 'healthy' really. It is full of splenda and other artificial sweeteners. Unfortunately a healthy lifestyle is restrictive in these times, 80% of the food in a store or restaurant is not healthy.

I train fasted most of the time and love it. I don't follow Martin's stuff exactly but have used a lot of the stuff that I have learned from his site.

[Opticks]

IE occam's plus the kiwi workout.

I'll look into these . . . I never read those sections of the book!

I don't think martin's eating is super healthy, but it sure looks like it tastes good and that is kinda what I'm going for

While I have you guys here, how much legumes should I be eating a day? I saw somewhere that it said 1-1.5 cups a day max . . . I def try to get as much in as I can stomach, because of Tim's listing in the book of people who don't get enough and stall as a result.

I will start to do my lifting again 2x a week, and make sure that it is only body weight stuff to emulate squats, deadlifts, and chest. I really need to get a gym membership or pull up bar. Could kettlebell swings work here? Or would that be better for my HIIT?

I'm really excited to switch to leangains after I drop some more of this weight with SCD. I like the idea of being super lean and muscular, but I really really don't want to be as massive as those guys on his site. Haha.

[justhamade]

You have a couple contradicting statements

That really is a diet I can live with, because right now I feel really restricted, and more and more is feeling like a "diet" instead of a healthy lifestyle.

I don't think martin's eating is super healthy, but it sure looks like it tastes good and that is kinda what I'm going for

So you do or don't want to have a healthy lifestyle?

While I have you guys here, how much legumes should I be eating a day?

IMO Legumes are not a great choice of carbs. And carbs quantity should be based and timed depending on your workout schedule. I realize that contradicts SCD and what Tim says in the book. My point is there is no set amount you should eat. It depends on your activity level etc.

My suggestion is usually eat more fat, eat lots of carbs post workout.

Could kettlebell swings work here? Or would that be better for my HIIT?

Kettlebell swings are HIIT. If you dont have access to weights look into some bodyweight stuff like http://www.youtube.com/user/ConvictConditioning

I'm really excited to switch to leangains after I drop some more of this weight with SCD. I like the idea of being super lean and muscular, but I really really don't want to be as massive as those guys on his site. Haha.

Not sure why you would wait. And there is no possible way you will get that big, as I said before.

[Opticks]

You have a couple contradicting statements

That really is a diet I can live with, because right now I feel really restricted, and more and more is feeling like a "diet" instead of a healthy lifestyle.

I don't think martin's eating is super healthy, but it sure looks like it tastes good and that is kinda what I'm going for

So you do or don't want to have a healthy lifestyle?

While I have you guys here, how much legumes should I be eating a day?

IMO Legumes are not a great choice of carbs. And carbs quantity should be based and timed depending on your workout schedule. I realize that contradicts SCD and what Tim says in the book. My point is there is no set amount you should eat. It depends on your activity level etc.

My suggestion is usually eat more fat, eat lots of carbs post workout.

Could kettlebell swings work here? Or would that be better for my HIIT?

Kettlebell swings are HIIT. If you dont have access to weights look into some bodyweight stuff like http://www.youtube.com/user/ConvictConditioning

I'm really excited to switch to leangains after I drop some more of this weight with SCD. I like the idea of being super lean and muscular, but I really really don't want to be as massive as those guys on his site. Haha.

Not sure why you would wait. And there is no possible way you will get that big, as I said before.

I don't think it's possible for me to do SCD for the rest of my life. I am at this point not enjoying the meals as much. I started to add some variety this week - by making chicken salad, and adding my lentils to that, as well as some olive oil and pepper. This by far has been my best tasting meal on SCD. I also make a fritatta now with spinnach/eggs/beef that is really good that I have with bacon for brunch around 11 AM. This kind of thing is a lot better than plain meat and beans with veggies.

Before I started SCD I had stopped eating candy and other ridiculously unhealthy food, and think I was able to sustain like that for so long due to fast carbs and sugar from fruit, yogurt, protein shakes, etc. That isn't the most healthy lifestyle imaginable, but it was much better than anything I had been doing up until that point.

I don't know how healthy Martin's stuff really is, but it can't be any worse than SCD endorsing full-on gluttony one day a week. It isn't supposed to work out to be that way, but it happens. I think both are more healthy than what 99% of people do and/or eat with no purpose or lifestyle goals defined with respect to diet and exercise.

Martin's protocol might be a little further away from the healthy scale of things when compared to SCD, but it produces results and is still infinitely better than eating whatever I want without a game plan.

So as much as I want a healthy lifestyle, I want something that I can actually live with and tolerate for an extended period of time. SCD is the first time I have ever craved anything. I don't think I would be that way with leangains.

I usually eat lentils as I am so sick of beans at this point. So should I be adding them to my salads and stuff only post workout? Otherwise, I do a no sucralose/setiva unflavored shake in water for 30in30, and then do scrambled eggs (frittata) with low sodium turkey bacon, lentils, and green beans for lunch. And then a big salad or chicken with lentils and green beans for dinner.

Should I be doing only lentils for lunch and then bacon or whole chopped eggs or something for dinner? I really don't know how else to get fat for energy.

My main thing about not switching to leangains now is that I wanted to see this through for a sense of accomplishment, as well as not having a full grasp of how to do leangains with the meals, etc. There really isn't a laid out how-to book like 4HB is. That website is a bunch of blog posts.

I also have a lot of money invested in PAGG with my current setup, so I would like to at least use those until they are done. My plan for now is to start doing that stuff you recommended with bodyweights and HIIT (2x each a week) and see how far that takes me while I learn leangains more.

[justhamade]

That is more clear, thanks.

Body recomposition (fat loss) is not always healthy. SCD actually isn't the most healthy way of eating either, legumes can be inflammatory.

If you make 2 simple changes it might make it more sustainable for you. Ditch the legumes and go will roots/tubers (yams/sweet potato/taro etc) and some small amount of fruit. This is pretty much paleo.

You can do SCD (or paleo) and leangains style IF together. That is what I do most days, and many other people too.

You can also keep using the PAGG and do LG IF as well, I did this as well.

I would avoid the turkey bacon and stick to real bacon. Beef is actually a better protein fat source than chicken, better omega3-6 ratio and more cholesterol. Cholesterol is good dont forget. Also I didn't see you mention fish at all. Fish is an even better source of protein and fat.

There are some fat loss benefits to keeping your meals bland. See http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.ca/20 ... -food.html
I would recommend keeping most meals like that for optimal fat loss, but if you want some good tasting healthy meals there are lots of paleo cook books. http://www.myfourhourbodydiary.com/cook-books/
I use the paleo recipe book a lot.

There are deserts as well, but I would keep those for post workout or cheat day.

Hope that helps, if you want more specifics for and daily schedule let me know.

Leangains is pretty easy, no manual is really needed. Only eat for 8 hours, eat as much as you want. If you train fasted take some BCAA to prevent muscle catabolism.

[johnshade]

I would just add one other caveat that martin makes in leangains: On work out days try to eat higher(not high)carb and protein and on rest days eat more low carb and higher fat.

Otherwise, yes its easy and SCD is not an "optimal" human diet. I see its primary usefullness is as a transition diet to paleo/primal which is optimal. I am running IF right now and doing exactly what justin said, which is swapped out the beans for root veggies and I eat fruit but only around my workouts. Love the results and I don't have to overlegislate my dietary choices. On some nights I want a burger or ice cream, I do it and know that the next meal will be back on track. Also I never eat carbs early in the day no matter what and when I do cheat I try to have it fall soon after a big resistance training session.