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Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

The Minimum Effective Dose and why everything popular is wrong.

Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby phillygurl » February 7th, 2012, 11:00 am


A lil background, I'm 31 and have dieting since I was 12...literally. Besides a year long stint in LA Weightloss in my early 20s I mostly shed pounds/maintain their calorie deprivation or no carbs. This has always worked well for me although it's not ideal. I always up my veggies and take vitamins. After my second baby a year ago, I haven't been able to drop the weight. I've plateaued doing no carbs. I just started 4HB and the beans are awful. My first day I gained .5 lbs. is this bc my body is not used to the carbs? I ate 1/2cup 3xs a day. Today I'm eating 1/4 cup 3xs a day. I'm def getting all my lean protein and brocolli and peas galore. I'm not taking any supplements. I have zero plans of working out. Thoughts???
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Re: Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby tim_1522 » February 7th, 2012, 2:33 pm


Sounds like you've been through a life-time of stress...

Are you getting enough sleep?
How are your stress levels?

The stress hormone Cortisol will kill any attempts to shed fat faster than just about anything.

I now tend to follow the Primal Blueprint as outlined by Mark Sisson of the Mark's Daily Apple website. It's more than just diet -- it's whole body wellness including things like: diet, exercise, sleep, sun exposure, living in alignment with your natural circadian rhythms, etc. Even the diet part is not like other diets because it doesn't focus on calorie deprivation and/or manipulating macronturient content. It's much more focused on NOT consuming foods which are toxic and increasing your consumption of nutrient dense food which will provide your body what it needs to fuel itself and heal.

Off the cuff, just from the blurb you gave, from a Primal Blueprint standpoint I'd say that's exactly what you need to:

-Stop abusing your body in the name "health", weightloss, etc.
-Start eliminating the toxins in what you consume
-Choose foods that allow you body to be fueled and heal
-Speaking of healing, stop heaping stress on yourself, get plenty of sleep, etc. Oh, and by the way, 0.5 lbs fluctuation over a period of one day is NOTHING. When I say stop heaping stress on yourself, this is a prime example -- *More on this below*

And (IMO) the best part of all about Primal Blueprint: NO beans!

Might be worth a look for you. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-b ... z1lj2vTQsF Here's a good place with links to some basic articles as to what Primal Blueprint is all about. Yes, Mark Sisson has a book called "The Primal Blueprint" and other products he promotes on the website, but he provides a ton of info and articles for free, so don't let that scare you off. It's no worse than the "Discover how to feel SUPERHUMAN in just 30 days!" you are subjected to here.

*Back to the 0.5 lbs thing again* Let me repeat: 0.5 lbs fluctuation over a period of one day is NOTHING. Don't even worry about it. It's more likely that you just hadn't relieved your bowels for the day than "is this bc my body is not used to the carbs?" Even if it was a meaningful change in body weight, that's NOT the same as body FAT. I don't know if you read 4HB or not, or if you are just jumping onto SCD, but there's a section in there which basically says relying on scale weight to judge your progress is foolish because it doesn't take into account body recomposition -- that is you can be adding muscle and losing fat at the same time and just because your scale weight is unchanged (or even goes up a little) doesn't mean your aren't making progress.

-Did you take measurements before starting SCD (as suggested in 4HB)?
-Do you have a way of *accurately* measuring your body fat %-age? If so, did you measure it?

Monitoring your measurements and going by things like how your clothes feel on you and/or utilizing *accurate* body fat %-ages is a MUCH better indicator than scale weight! (Again, this is all in 4HB) And besides, ANY of the measurements after only ONE DAY are *absolutely* meaningless. You mentioned having a baby, so I'm going to make the leap that you are female -- it's pretty well known in most dieting circles (even the Conventional Wisdom ones outside of 4HB and SCD) that body weight can fluctuate with your cycle that has NOTHING to do with how much body fat you have.

Your frequency of taking measuring progress (again ideally using one of the much more reliable ways as outlined in 4HB) should be no more often than on a weekly basis. But, also realize that results won't even begin to be meaningful until you have 4 or 5 weeks worth of data to be able to see "trend" and bear in mind where that data lines up with things like water weight fluctuations and so forth. Stop weighing yourself everyday -- you'll drive yourself crazy. This is sound advice whether you stick with SCD, consider adopting Primal Blueprint, or go in a completely different direction. Oh, and whatever direction you go in -- give it AT LEAST 30 days before assessing progress.
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Re: Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby GThorp » February 7th, 2012, 3:31 pm


Tim pretty much nailed it above. Terrific response and Tim covers just about everything you need to know. As another follower of the Primal lifestyle, I echo Tim's sentiments.

1) Stop stressing. Stress is a silent killer and will not only hinder weight loss, but will wreck your health with time.

2) Stop measuring. You don't need to weight yourself everyday. The body naturally flucuates from day-to-day. Weighing yourself on a monthly basis is a great recommendation, but if you are one of those people who absolutely must weigh yourself, try and weight at least a week inbetween weigh-ins.

3) If you don't like beans or your body doesn't handle them well, don't eat them. Everyone is different, and as such, we all like and dislike certain foods. Some people can do well on an all-meat diet, where as some need to throw in a hearty helping of veggies. See what fuels your body the best, and just keep working towards looking and feeling better.
My Story of Losing 30 Pounds
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Re: Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby phillygurl » February 7th, 2012, 4:46 pm


Thanks for the responses and helpful link. I will absolutely look into this plan.

I have read 4HB. I realize I shouldn't be scale obsessed. I am slowly working on that! :) I've done all my measurements so hopefully in a week I'll see results. I guess I was shocked to see the scale go up bc I'm used to instant weight loss w zero carbs. I guess it's a good thing my body doesn't want to do that anymore since it is definitely not the end all of healthy living!
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Re: Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby tim_1522 » February 7th, 2012, 5:36 pm


A couple things:

1) Apparently Mark's Daily Apple is down at the moment -- it figures. It's generally never been a problem and I have to say that this is the longest I've EVER seen it down in the time I've been going to it.

2) You mentioned you have "zero plans of working out" and that's probably fine, but I'd recommend taking some nice leisurely walks. Nothing intense, just a daily stroll of about half hour or so. It's generally a good way to "step away", de-stress, clear your mind, etc.

If you do change your mind and decide to add working out, I'd recommend adding some strength/weight/resistance training first. A lot of people here have recommended the "Kiwi" workout as a solid regiment for people that are primarily looking to subtract fat, although some have even reported small adds of muscle with it. The point is this is NOT a workout like Geek To Freak or Occam's Protocol that's primarily intended to add muscle.

The thing is that the Kiwi workout is almost mentioned as an afterthought, so I've read posts saying that a lot of people miss it the first read through 4HB. Maybe do a search on Kiwi in the forums to see some other people's experiences with it. I haven't done it because I'm not really in a Subtracting Fat first mindset.
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Re: Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby justhamade » February 7th, 2012, 11:00 pm


Great responses from the crew so far, and I will reiterate some things just to stress how important they are and add a couple things.

First sleep. If you are on a low carb/slow carb/no carb diet and you are not losing fat then you are not getting enough sleep and probably not at the right time. I have a little one as well and realize that sleep with a baby can be hard. We started sleep training him at 4 months and he has sleep through the night (11-12 hours) since 6 months.

You also need to sleep in a pitch black room, not a spec of light, this important because light affect melatonin production.

I highly recommend reading "Lights out" by TS Wiley first, then the Primal Blueprint or Paleo Solution. I say this because I think sleep and hormones are your major issues and diet not as much. There is also some overlap between all those books.

Here is an interview that I link to frequently to give you an idea about what the Lights Out book is about. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/undergroun ... h-ts-wiley

Now primal and paleo are closely related to the 4HB community but much bigger. After reading bits of the 4HB again I realized it is pretty much a Primal/Paleo book with better marketing (and beans LOL). Because you are a mom and because health is important for you and your little one I highly recommend reading/listening to the everyday paleo blog and podcast hosted by 2 moms that are personal trainers at Robb Wolfs gym. http://everydaypaleo.com/

There is also a ton of good free info on Primal/Paleo ancestral health. The best place to start is probably the videos of the talks from the Ancestral Health Symposium last year. http://vimeo.com/ancestralhealthsymposium

Marks Daily Apple is my favourite blog on the subject, and Robb Wolf's podcast is my favourite podcast and Underground Wellness a close second.

Other than sleep I would recommend one other thing, and that is focusing on food quality and nutrient density ... not just carbs or calories. What I mean by that is not processed foods, no vegetable oils (canola, soybean) and minimally processed foods.

If you want any specific information or help with a routine or meal plan feel free to contact me.
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Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby Punchy » February 7th, 2012, 11:48 pm


All the above and try to add some weight training (kettlebell, starting strength, stronglifts, etc.) to help increase insulin sensitivity with your muscles. Also as previously mentioned reduce your toxin intake. Look at the oils you are cooking with and be absolutely certain you don't have any sweeteners sneaking in.
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Started SCD December 20th, 2010 - Weight 242 @ 169.5" - Waist 42"
June 16th, 2011 - Weight 181.4 @ 142" - Waist 34.5"

Started PAGG on Cheat Days beginning April 14th (Friday PM - Sunday AM)
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Re: Slow Carbs vs. No Carbs

Postby justhamade » February 8th, 2012, 12:54 pm


Punchy wrote:All the above and try to add some weight training (kettlebell, starting strength, stronglifts, etc.) to help increase insulin sensitivity with your muscles. Also as previously mentioned reduce your toxin intake. Look at the oils you are cooking with and be absolutely certain you don't have any sweeteners sneaking in.

I realized later I forgot to mention exercise.

I agree with Punchy, but if you are not planning on doing any workouts I suggest at a minimum doing some activity before (or after) your biggest meal of the day. I think this is one of the best thing I learned from the 4HB book, and I used it for everyday, not just for cheat days. Air squat and wall pressed take 2 minutes, if you don't like doing that at least a 5-10 min brisk walk.
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