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Which BCAA should I take?

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Which BCAA should I take?

Postby Punchy » June 29th, 2012, 9:02 am


Barbie on the lower body to keep from bulking follow more of a strength program of 3x5 with heavy weights.

As for fruit TF recommended Garpefruit juice on cheat day to help extend the caffeine (or something like that) but I have opted for the past 9 months after I landed down to 15% BF to have a grapefruit (yes you gotta peal it) every AM with my coffee before working out. Currently I'm at 11.3% BF (Hydrostatic test from 2 days ago) so I know the grapefruit hasn't stalled my progress. BTW the BF level went down but weight stayed the same (muscle added)

Also take a look at supplementing with magnesium glycinate in the evening, I don't recall TF hitting on this but I definitely seems to help with sleep and keeping regular. Plus it's an essential mineral that we generally don't get enough of.
5' 11" 43yo Male
Started SCD December 20th, 2010 - Weight 242 @ 169.5" - Waist 42"
June 16th, 2011 - Weight 181.4 @ 142" - Waist 34.5"

Started PAGG on Cheat Days beginning April 14th (Friday PM - Sunday AM)
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby Blayne » June 30th, 2012, 9:11 pm


Hi Barbii-

Barbii_ wrote: For the first time in over a year, I am adding small amounts of fruit to my diet after workout. Like today with my first meal I added half apple and yesterday I had a very small plum. They tasted amazing!! I do Lean gains and I think since I'm working out during my fast, I'm not supposed to eat until my feeding window, which is usually 2 to 3 hours post workout. But who cares, I'm not eating much food when you tally it all up, I dont think a piece of fruit or some carrots post workout is really gonna ruin my plan. Right?


As I said, I am not really familiar with the leangains protocol/program/philosophy, so I cannot really comment specifically from that perspective. However, from a general fat-loss/muscle-gaining perspective, there is absolutely nothing wrong with (and in fact a lot of benefit from) consuming fruit after a workout. Most whole fruit includes fiber which slows the insulin response, and after a workout, you actually want a spike in insulin levels anyway to assist with muscle recovery/growth. So any program that says you shouldn't eat fruit even immediately after a workout would be suspect IMO.

Barbii_ wrote:I eat lots of protein and vege and little sweet potato/butternut squash/carrots for my carbs. Not really eating beans anymore.I drink a detox tea at night now too. I am not regular at all anymore. I'm lucky if I go 2-3x week now. This is not cool.


Your diet doesn't sound too far off from mine in some ways - lots of protein (chicken/beef/pork/some tuna), quite a few veggies and sweet potatoes (on workout days), and I rarely eat beans/legumes. I do eat rice, but more for carb/glycogen reloading purposes. I drink a couple of protein shakes a day (usually 2 - one in the afternoon between meals and one before bed, casein) and add a carb shake with a little protein during my workout and a carb/protein shake immediately after workouts.

But I have nor regularity issues at all, in fact I am more regular on this diet than I ever was before. So I'm not sure what is causing your issues, except that if you have not been eating fruit, and depending on what veggies you're eating, you may not be getting enough fiber (especially since you cut the legumes). Take a look at your overall fiber consumption and consider adding more fruit and possibly a fiber supplement.

Another possible cause could be dehydration. How much water are you drinking per day? I weigh much more than you (right around 190, still at about 10% BF), but I try typically consume 4-5 liters of water on non workout days and 6-8 on workout days. At your weight, I would try to get around 100 ounces or more per day.

Barbii_ wrote:My weight isnt going down at all. I am staying at 139-142. It never drops below 138. I was 138 on SCD. Yes I am more defined now in my shape but You would think with going to gym 5x week, doing GTF/KIwi/abs, and Lean gains I would be dropping weight. I dont know. My pants are tight in the ass and lose in other areas. I think that's from all the squats and lunges, I have a pear figure so I build easily in my ass and legs, plus I was a softball catcher for over 10yrs so my lower half is very esily agitated when I workout, building fast. So, maybe it is muscle gain but I would still like to lean out, hence the leangains deal. Any thoughts?


You really have to be careful not to judge progress based on your weight. It is quite possible that you have been losing fat and gaining muscle, with the two canceling each other out on your scale. Do you think you look different? Do you take any body measurements?

And if that's not the case, you could be over-training, and not giving your body the recovery time needed to properly burn fat (most fat burning occurs during recovery, not during the exercise itself).

If you're certain you are not losing fat/gaining muscle, provide more info on your complete diet and exercise routine (durations, frequency, etc) along with your sleep patterns and any other significant stressers in your life, and the folks here might be able to offer some suggestions.
6-1, 41 y/o male
SCD Jan 2-Feb 13 '11 (BW: ~193)
Modified SCD start Feb 13 '11(BW: ~185)
Stats:
7/2/11: 179lb, 10.3% BF (based on hydrostatic test)
10/20/11: 185lb, ~10.5% BF
Dec '12: 194lb, ~11-12% BF (bulking phase)
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby Barbii_ » July 2nd, 2012, 8:55 pm


Lol, one would think I am overdoing it a bit but when you consider my workouts are under 30min, not so much. I do need to stay focused on workouts like this cause I feel like if I dont stay on track then I'll most likely lose interest and get out of routine. I also have a goal, looking better in a bathing suit, it is summer, I aint got lotsa time! Lol

Anyway, this week it all hit, lost inches, lost weight. I love it! Leangains is amazing! I"ve only been on this for a month or so and my gains in the gym are amazing! For example, I started with an 8lb dumbell for kettle bell swings and now I'm at 20lbs 30reps. Way cool! I started with 17.5lb tricep with rope and Im now at 27.5lbs. I started with 35lbs hamstring curl and I'm now at 45lbs. I started with 20lb bicep curl and now I'm at 30lb, gonna up it to 35lb tomorrow. I think GTF workout is the BOMB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you get results like this, you'd wanna do it 5x a week too! Ya man!!!
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby Barbii_ » July 2nd, 2012, 9:15 pm


Punchy, thanks for the insight. I love grapefruit juice. I could totally do that before each workout. I think I'm gonna add fiber suppliment to diet, I have a tub here and see if that helps first.

Blayne, What great suggestions! Duh! Fiber suppliments.
Also, I am eating fruit more and more, today was canteloup. I do drink a lot of water, not sure how much but when I feel hungry during the 16hr fast, I gulp water. So I think its the fiber issue.
I do measure with tape and they seem to be the same, I dont write them down, I know, I am terrible at keeping true records, plus my kids find stuff and move it all the time so I usually go by my pants. But I DO see results inthe mirror. Especially during the workout! definition and new bulges I love! So I know you are right! Scale isnt everything! I have to preach that to myself on a regular basis so I dont obsess.
You would be proud of me tho, my cheat sat pm-Sun pm, I ate low gluten and better than normal and the scale didnt go up much at all, maybe 1.5lbs where it normally goes up 3-4lbs. Love it! I think the gluten is key, avoiding it on refeed day minimized the headache hangover today. I love learning these things by experimenting, it really sticks in the mind more than someone's suggestion alone.
I do think I am losing fat, I think I was just impatient last week and I think I am on track to how my body works and which direction to keep goind.
Thanks so much for the help! You're a real help!
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby justhamade » July 4th, 2012, 3:40 am


Hi Barbii,

I was away so didn't get a chance to reply to this one. Personally I don't think it is a fiber issue. I think it is a couple things. First 5x a week even at 30 mins is quite a bit for leangains type IF. You probably need to eat more. Also it could be a mineral deficiency like magnesium.

Second I find that if I don't eat enough fat (from meat) that I get constipated as well.

Last I find that a probiotic at night, and a digestive enzyme before meals helps A LOT with digestion and I am pretty sure with nutrient absorption. Even when I eat bad for when I am on vacation :(

Don't forget a lot of the guys here, me included, have different goals from you. I am glad you are seeing results with the IF.

Stick with the BCAA for the pre workout. If you want to add a protein shake post workout or later in the day that would make sense, but probably not needed.

Blayne, protein spikes insulin as well as carbs ;) And protein synthesis is a > 24 hour process. The info Martin has on the leangains site is really good, even if you don't follow the eating schedule.
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby Blayne » July 4th, 2012, 10:20 pm


justhamade wrote:Blayne, protein spikes insulin as well as carbs ;)


Justin- No offense, but that's BS. I'm actually surprised to see you write this, since you typically have very good fact-based information.

Many studies have shown that protein alone does not produce nearly the insulin response that carbs do (alone). I've seen studies showing 4x the insulin response from carbs alone over protein alone, and carbs combined with protein can produce 6x the insulin response as just protein. How you can say protein spikes insulin as well as carbs I simply don't understand. (Maybe you're joking, thus the wink emoticon???)

Yes, protein will produce some insulin spike, but not even close to the equivalent of a simple carb, the point I was making as to why one should consume carbs and protein after a workout.
6-1, 41 y/o male
SCD Jan 2-Feb 13 '11 (BW: ~193)
Modified SCD start Feb 13 '11(BW: ~185)
Stats:
7/2/11: 179lb, 10.3% BF (based on hydrostatic test)
10/20/11: 185lb, ~10.5% BF
Dec '12: 194lb, ~11-12% BF (bulking phase)
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby justhamade » July 4th, 2012, 11:38 pm


No offense taken, I appreciate being corrected and learning something.

I got the info from MDA here http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-insulin/ which references this study here http://www.ajcn.org/content/80/5/1246.abstract
Which states in the abstact

Conclusions: It can be concluded that food proteins differ in their capacity to stimulate insulin release, possibly by differently affecting the early release of incretin hormones and insulinotropic amino acids. Milk proteins have insulinotropic properties; the whey fraction contains the predominating insulin secretagogue.

I don't have access to the full text and my understanding of it is limited.

I do agree that one should consume protein and carbs post workout for recovery purposes. But for fat loss purpose the carbs are not needed and the amount of insulin from the protein should be more than enough to stop any muscle catabolism. What do you think?
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby Barbii_ » July 6th, 2012, 3:50 pm


Well my husband picked me up Myogenix Amino2 the other day. I have tossed the whey protein pre/post workout and now do a scoop and a 1/2 pre/post workout. It tastes pretty good. In a scoop there are 6,600mg of intravenos, 3 carbs and 6 proteins. Dont know if this is the best kind of BCAA's, what do you think?
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby Trompos » July 6th, 2012, 4:09 pm


While I'm new to the 4hb I was a bodybuilder for years and can tell you first hand, from my experience, from the experience of competitive bodybuilders and power lifters, and most articles, BCAAs are garbage and you're flushing our money down the toilet. Back in my days of training, those things were expensive as hell. If you eat complete proteins in real food, or find a cheap protein shake like body fortress, they will add BCAAs buying them in pill form is just not worth the money.
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Re: Which BCAA should I take?

Postby justhamade » July 6th, 2012, 5:51 pm


Barbii_ wrote:Well my husband picked me up Myogenix Amino2 the other day. I have tossed the whey protein pre/post workout and now do a scoop and a 1/2 pre/post workout. It tastes pretty good. In a scoop there are 6,600mg of intravenos, 3 carbs and 6 proteins. Dont know if this is the best kind of BCAA's, what do you think?
Seems OK but has maltodextrin in it which seems odd as most other BCAAs don't, that might be a good thing though, not sure.
Trompos wrote:While I'm new to the 4hb I was a bodybuilder for years and can tell you first hand, from my experience, from the experience of competitive bodybuilders and power lifters, and most articles, BCAAs are garbage and you're flushing our money down the toilet. Back in my days of training, those things were expensive as hell. If you eat complete proteins in real food, or find a cheap protein shake like body fortress, they will add BCAAs buying them in pill form is just not worth the money.
Hey Trompos. I do agree with you for most cases but we are using BCAA in this case to avoid muscle catabolism when training fasted.
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