Subtracting Fat Forum FAQ: New Members, please start here!!!

[Blayne]

Welcome to the Subtracting Fat FAQ.

The purpose of this topic is to provide answers to some of the more frequently asked questions (FAQs) posted to this forum. This is a "living" FAQ, meaning it will continue to grow over time. If you see a question coming up repeatedly, please send me a private message and I will add it to this FAQ topic.

This will hopefully be presented in a logical order, with more common questions at the top. Each post title will note the question. The content of the post will include the answer. Please read through at least the subject of each post to see if your question is included here. And remember, this message board has a search function - if you don't find your answer in this FAQ, please try searching before posting.

Please note that this topic is intentionally locked. I want to make sure the items included here are truly topics that come up frequently, and not simply become a dumping ground for every question someone asks. If you have any questions about this, please feel free to drop me a PM.

Finally, thank you to all the forum members who have provided the questions for this FAQ, and most of the answers. Each post will show me as the author, but the content of the post is a collection of information from many people - the community that makes up the 4HBtalk Forum.

[Blayne]

One of the most common questions posted on the 4HBtalk Subtracting Fat forum is "Am I allowed to eat XYZ on SCD?" This post condenses most of the "ambiguous" items that have been asked about and provides the general consensus answer. It also includes a common question on snacking, another topic addressed specifically in 4HB.

Q) If I am strictly following SCD, are the following items allowed on on non-cheat/binge days?

milk - No
cheese - No
cottage cheese - Yes
sweet potatoes -No
quinoa -No
corn -No (Corn is mentioned as alright in salsa, though this would be a very limited quantity. Corn is a grain, which is not allowed on SCD)
onions - Yes (exception to the no white carb rule)
cauliflower - Yes (exception to the no white carb rule)
ketchup – No (unless it doesn’t have added sugar or sweeteners)
garbanzo beans/chickpeas - Yes, but only in limited quantities (4HB notes these as possible domino foods, but they seem to fit the SCD legume profile)
nuts -Yes, but only a small handful a day (another potential domino food, should be limited)
artificial sweeteners - No
stevia –Yes (Tim notes the use of stevia is ok when describing an acceptable salad dressing in SCD II “Finer Points”)
tofu- Yes
grapefruit/grapefruit juice- No (grapefruit juice is noted as a Damage Control suggestion in 4HB for cheat day only)
baked beans- Maybe (most baked beans have quite a bit of sugar or other non-compliant items)
white beans- Yes (see this thread)

Q: What snacks are okay on the SCD?

A: Snacks aren't recommended in the book, but if you stick to eating an element of the 3 food groups that make up SCD meals, you should be fine. For example,some sliced cold chicken breast or other lean meat, a handful of spinach, 5-10 almonds or 4-5 brazil nuts, a carrot/cucumber (chopped and dipped into salsa or guacamole), a scoop of peanut or almond butter on celery, a protein shake, etc. All should have no significant negative impact on SCD if you can't make a meal soon enough.

[Blayne]

Q) What are all of these acronyms I keep seeing? 4HB, 4HWW, SCD, OP, PAGG, TLM? I mean WTF???

A) For simplicity/efficiency, many posts use acronyms related to or used in the book "The 4-Hour Body". Some of the more common ones include:

4HB: 4-hour Body, the second book from Tim Ferriss
4HWW: 4-Hour Work Week (Tim’s first book)
TF: Tim Ferriss, author of The 4 hour Body
SCD: Slow Carb Diet
OP: Occam's Protocol
PAGG: Policosanol, ALA, Garlic, Green Tea extract aka EGCg (PAGG is the supplement stack recommended in 4HB for SCD)
TLM: The Last Mile
MED: Minimum Effective Dose
CM: Creatine Monohydrate
G2F: Geek to Freek

[Blayne]

Q. SCD does not seem to be working for me, or my progress is really slow. What should I include in the TOPIC I post asking for assistance?

A. First and foremost, remember that we want to help you. Please post all of the following, so that the community here has as much information as possible to troubleshoot your plan and get you on track to losing fat and feeling better. Please post the information in a numbered list just like this:

1) SHORT BIO. Tell us about yourself. Your sex, age, height, weight-loss history, weight-loss goals, and anything else that you feel matters to our understanding of you and your experience. Include any health/medical conditions that might be a factor (thyroid conditions, diabetic, etc).

2) YOUR START. The date you started SCD. Your starting weight, body-fat percentage and total inches. The more detail the better - it is difficult to assess reasons fora lack of progress without a complete picture.

3) DAILY CONSUMPTION.A very detailed list of every single thing that goes in your mouth for at least one full day, preferably two. (TF himself insists on two full days when he responds to any request for troubleshooting help.) If you can't list this information offhand, spend at least one full day logging the information in real time. This includes all supplements, food, drinks (including water) and anything else you consume, how much of it you consume, and approximately when. ALL of the details could matter, so err on the side of posting too much information, not too little. Start your list from the moment you wake up.

4) CHEAT/BINGE DAY.A description of your typical cheat day. Is it always the same day of the week?Is it always limited to one full waking day (rather than a 24-hr period spread over two days)? Do you binge for all meals including breakfast? Do you incorporate any of the Damage Control techniques discussed in 4HB?

5) OTHER CHEATING.A straightforward account of how often you have cheated other than on cheat day,and, if you did, what you consumed, and how much. Details here profoundly matter(some cheats really screw with the diet, others not so much), so please be as complete as possible, to help us help you.

6) EXERCISE. Your exercise regime. What kind of exercise, how long you do it, how often you do it.

7)CURRENT STATS.Your current weight, body-fat percentage and total inches.

8) YOUR MINDSET.Any guesses at why the SCD didn't work for you? Any ideas you are already contemplating for changes? Are you close to giving up? Are you instead willing to double down and make a greater effort over the next four weeks if there are things you could do that have proven successful for others who first had trouble with this diet?

Again, please be as comprehensive as possible with the above information, as the more details we have, the more we can help.

[Blayne]

Q: Is a protein shake in the morning a good substitute for breakfast?


A: A protein shake is better than not eating at all first thing in the morning, but a protein shake alone is not an ideal start to an SCD'ers day. Breakfast should include a high-protein component (like eggs or meat), a legume, and a vegetable. Without the veggies and legumes, you are not giving your body the energy it needs to get through your morning, and you're not kicking your metabolism into high gear for the day. And you may not be consuming enough calories (unless that one REALLY big protein shake).

If, on an exception basis, you need to use a protein shake instead of an actual real food meal, use a good quality protein like egg protein (one of the only complete proteins available as a non-food protein source) or whey protein (also a complete protein, but whey digests more quickly than egg protein).

[Blayne]

Q. Is it really critical to drink a lot of water while on SCD? Is eight 8oz glasses a day enough?


A. Yes, the vast majority of people seem to agree this is one of the critical elements of succeeding at fat loss through SCD (or most diets for that matter). And 64oz of water a day is likely less than you should be consuming.

TF makes a point of noting lack of water consumption is one of the common mistakes (reasons for failure/lack of progress) with SCD in 4HB. Most people would recommend more like 3-4 liters (100-135oz) of water a day, and in some cases more.

Generally,the heavier/larger you are, the more you should drink. Another common rule of thumb is to take your weight, divide by two, and make sure you drink at least that many ounces of water each day.

[Blayne]

Q: How long does it normally take for cheat day weight to come off?

A: Nearly all of the added “weight” gained after cheat day is from water retained due to the increased carb intake and glycogen replenishing, not additional fat. Tim notes in 4HB that this typically goes away within 48 hours after cheat day. Some members of this forum have reported taking 3-4 days, but most people seem to report dropping back down within 2-3 days, and some don’t seem to gain a significant amount following cheat day.


Q: Can I really eat anything on CHEAT DAY/BINGE DAY?

A: There are no limits or boundaries during Cheat Day. As Tim says in his book, "Enjoy your cheat day guilt-free." However, Tim does offer many suggestions in 4HB for ways to minimize the cheat day “damage” while still getting the benefits, including starting cheat day off with a regular SCD-compliant breakfast before going fully into “binge mode”.

[Blayne]

Q: Is SCD a ketogenic diet (like the Atkin's diet or other no/low carb diets), where your body goes into a state of ketosis due to a lack of carbohydrates?

A: There is some debate over this, and it can be inferred from some statements in 4HB that SCD may cause you to reach ketosis periodically. However, most agree that if you are consuming the recommended amounts of vegetables and more so legumes, you will likely not be in full ketosis very often if at all.

it is important to note that SCD is a slow carb diet, not a low carb diet. If you are consuming nothing but meats/proteins, you are not following the diet properly.

[Blayne]

Holding place for several questions, including:

Q: Is it critical to take PAGG?
A: See this thread

Q: Is it critical to take PAGG on cheat/binge day?
A: See this thread

Q: Should I buy a full PAGG stack all-in-one product, or create it myself?
A: There are a few different perspectives on this, but it basically boils down to cost versus convenience. The cheapest way to take PAGG is by shopping around (either online or at local stores) and purchasing the PAGG parts separately, but then you are going to have to consume at least 3-4 pills four times per day, and pay attention to make sure you grab the correct ones at the correct time. Buying a pre-made PAGG supplement (like one of those offered by one of this site's sponsors) is definitely more convenient, but it costs more. Some of the PAGG suppliers offer discounts for buying multiple months (or on a subscription basis) and also sometimes offer discounts or special offers. In the end, it boils down to whether you want to save some money or save some time and effort.

Q: Should I take any time off from PAGG?
A: Tim notes in 4HB to take a day off every 6 days, in other words, take one day off per week. You are then supposed to take a week off of PAGG every two months (roughly every 8 weeks). For more on why, go here: PAGG Question

Q: What day of the week should be my "off day" from taking PAGG? Should it be cheat/binge day?
A: Look here: PAGG on Cheat Day?

Q: Are there alternatives to Athletic Greens?
A: Absolutely. Here is a whole thread on this topic: Is there an Alternative to Athletic Greens?

[Blayne]

Q: I'm a middle aged woman and not seeing any results. What gives?

A: Middle aged women tend to not see results until roughly 4-6 weeks into the diet. If you keep up the diet, the weight should start to come off by the 6th week. If you are being strict and following all of the rules but not seeing any fat loss by week 6, it might be time to see a doctor because there might be some underlying medical condition that is preventing weight loss.


Q: Why are pre-menopausal women having a harder time losing weight and inches even though they are following the diet and NOT substituting as others may be to their likings?

A: Still looking for a good response to this one. Please PM me with any suggestions


Q: Why is it harder for Women over 45yrs old to lose those last 10-20lbs while following the SCD with NO substituting and eating only what Tim has listed in the book?

A: Still looking for a good response to this one. Please PM me with any suggestions