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New To SCD

Questions and recipes related to The Slow Carb Diet and the supplements discussed in the book (PAGG)

Re: New To SCD

Postby Opticks » June 10th, 2012, 1:50 am


http://imgur.com/a/rLSUU

fresh pics, should i be doing a recomp or cut with this BF%? i imagine it is close to 20% . . . and is a recomp like +10/-30 for workout/rest days? thanks!
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Re: New To SCD

Postby justhamade » June 10th, 2012, 5:09 pm


Opticks wrote:http://imgur.com/a/rLSUU

fresh pics, should i be doing a recomp or cut with this BF%? i imagine it is close to 20% . . . and is a recomp like +10/-30 for workout/rest days? thanks!

I am not a big fan of the terms used, a cut is a re-comp. Unless you are a bodybuilder, or extremely obese, you should just get lean and build muscle always.

Opticks wrote:Where do I go to find the info for that? Everything I've seen on bb.com is for cuts (probably because I'm in the fat loss section) or bulks.
I would be very careful getting advice from bb.com fourms.

Opticks wrote:but I don't think sucralose really bothers me
Suralose bothers everyone, it doesn't show, you can feel your gut flora (bacteria) changing. The issues I had in my 'expert' opinion was due to the mix of Sucralose and artificial color.
Opticks wrote:I think I need to count calories and keep track of macros at this point, or I would just eat a ton, even if it's healthy.
You are suppose to eat a ton. Its ok for health AND for fat loss, as long as you eat the right thing.

Something I learned/realized recently, protein is NOT used for energy, yet when you do you calorie (energy) calculations you include protein. If you are eating a high protein diet and keeping insulin low then this makes no sense what so ever.

You do not and SHOULD NOT count calories. Carbs I think would be a good idea to keep track of, but remember when you eat carbs and they type is just as important as the quantity of them.

Opticks wrote:LITE (55% less fat) not 1/3 less-fat creme cheese - one serving has 330 cals and 13g of total fat, 8 is saturated - that is less than 5 strips of regular bacon).

Fat is good for you why are you avoiding fat? I eat bacon almost every day.
Opticks wrote:I was going to do bench/squats/deads/shoulders/back at the gym MWF. I don't know if that is feasible or not, so I'll probably have to spread things out a bit, and maybe do every other workout for them. I don't really know what other exercises to do, but know that they are the main four.

I will finish reading starting strength tomorrow and start on that plan if there is one in the book. I am going to do dumbbell squats or use a machine
As much as I would like to use a bar, I fear that I would end up hurting myself, and don't see anyone at my gym doing that to dare initiating it on my own. I get the benefits of using a bar, but right now it isn't in the cards for me. Should I specifically be doing any other body part exercises etc that I have not mentioned? I tried chin/pullup and could only do 2. I will try to weasel those in until I am able to do a respectable amount and am able to work them into my regular routine.


Hmm, might be a good idea to scale the weight training stuff back to body weight stuff like primal.

Pull ups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76HjVOoUX6U
Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRiFnyq ... el&list=UL
Plank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrHG7m4m ... ure=relmfu
Push up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UayvOd0x ... ure=relmfu

Workout guide http://www.marksdailyapple.com/subscrib ... z1xQk7imNH

If the are too easy then add some weight. Sorry to keep changing advice but hard to figure out your ability level in a forum post. If a simple barbell squat is difficult then start with just the bar or even use a dowel or ever 5 lb bar.

Changing from IF to LG shouldn't be that much of a change. Switch up the beans to fruit/starchy veggies and skip breakfast. Still do the cheat/re-feed once a week. That should be you big workout day.

The primal plan might be the best way for you to go, take all the thinking out of it, learn the right stuff about diet fat, carbs etc.

I also suggest reading Gary Taubes stuff 'Why we get fat' or at least his articles.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magaz ... t-lie.html
http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2 ... iling.html

Good Luck
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Re: New To SCD

Postby justhamade » June 10th, 2012, 5:17 pm


Barbii_ wrote:Thank You Justhamade!! I keep looking at your eight pack thinking, hey, if he can show off his leanness, maybe I can show off my new shape, espcially since I've been pregnant and nursing for the past 5 years! lol
No prob ... we should probably start our own thread.


Barbii_ wrote:if I can avoid over eating
Its not about over eating per se. Its about eating the right thing at the right time.
Barbii_ wrote:Do you eat specifically primal or paleo or SCD or a mix of you own?
I eat Paleo almost all the time. I am not a big fan of beans/lentils.
Barbii_ wrote:What do you think is best for me, beings that I'm working out 4-5x week doing primarily kiwi with some cardio, and I'm down to the size I wanna be, just needing to lean out or tone more?
Time to add some strength training IMO. I would do kiwi 1-2x a week and something like starting strength 1-2x a week. You will NOT get bulky, but it will do wonders for your insulin sensitivity. Cut the cardio it does nothing for fat loss ... http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/ .. either walk, lift, or HIIT. And once you do get used to IF then train fasted and eat all your carbs post workout. Just figure out what works for you, I can help with trial and error.

Barbii_ wrote:Ok my husband is a body builder.
Ahh that makes sense.
I spent probably $100 on supplements a month and that is too much LOL.
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Re: New To SCD

Postby Opticks » June 10th, 2012, 7:16 pm


justhamade wrote:you should just get lean and build muscle always.


yeah this is what i want to do, and know that lifting while doing this will cause me to gain develop muscle as i lose weight.

I would be very careful getting advice from bb.com fourms.


so far i've had absolutely zero advice from those forums. the only thing that i've really taken from them is the emulation of that other guy's LG cut that you linked me to. i started following that since we are approximately the same height and weight, with weight wanting to move in the same direction.

The issues I had in my 'expert' opinion was due to the mix of Sucralose and artificial color.


i was interested in some costco whey as it was pretty cheap, but all of the reviews on amazon talked about the heavily chemical nature of it, and that doesn't sound good to me. i'll probably grab some more abouttime whey that uses setiva. my ON casein for protein pudding uses sucralose, and that stuff isn't going anywhere until it gets all used up.

You are suppose to eat a ton. Its ok for health AND for fat loss, as long as you eat the right thing.

Something I learned/realized recently, protein is NOT used for energy, yet when you do you calorie (energy) calculations you include protein. If you are eating a high protein diet and keeping insulin low then this makes no sense what so ever.

You do not and SHOULD NOT count calories. Carbs I think would be a good idea to keep track of, but remember when you eat carbs and they type is just as important as the quantity of them.


so the right things being good carbs within limits on workout days, and less carbs and moderate fatty foods on rest days? i have some sweet potatoes in the fridge that i will start making / eating, and there is brown rice around here. what is the full list again? root vegetables and . . . ?

Fat is good for you why are you avoiding fat? I eat bacon almost every day.


2 posts ago it was bad for me to eat cheesecake a lot, because even martin doesn't do that. now it's bad that im cutting the fat and calories out of a dessert for the nights i workout...

the low-fat cheesecake is for nights that i lift mwf as dessert. i have regular cut bacon that i started eating today (rest day) for the fat content and little bit of protein. i also had some lean burgers, etc.

so on my rest days i am eating fatty foods for protein and fat for energy, but saving the light cheesecake for carb days.


Hmm, might be a good idea to scale the weight training stuff back to body weight stuff like primal.

Pull ups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76HjVOoUX6U
Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNRiFnyq ... el&list=UL
Plank http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrHG7m4m ... ure=relmfu
Push up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UayvOd0x ... ure=relmfu

Workout guide http://www.marksdailyapple.com/subscrib ... z1xQk7imNH

If the are too easy then add some weight. Sorry to keep changing advice but hard to figure out your ability level in a forum post. If a simple barbell squat is difficult then start with just the bar or even use a dowel or ever 5 lb bar.


i'm not completely interested in that primal stuff as i literally just signed a gym contract so that i could do leangains and "lift heavy things".

on the bright side, most of those exercises i have been doing since march, and am pretty adept at a few of them. the squats, pushups, etc. i am able to do at high reps in a lot of those positions. i really do think it is time for me to be in a gym regularly.

the pull/chinups on the other hand i have been unable to do them as it required more hardware that i did not have. i looked at a rack like he uses, and it's on amazon for $100. for that much money, i could get a year of gym time. that is what i opted for.

i will start the primal pullup progression tomrrow, and work my way up. the stuff he showed will really really help me a lot and to get started with my back.

Changing from IF to LG shouldn't be that much of a change. Switch up the beans to fruit/starchy veggies and skip breakfast. Still do the cheat/re-feed once a week. That should be you big workout day.


everything is easy as cake compared to scd/4hb. 4hb works, but imo the food and cooking sucks. LG in comparison is super easy - almost effortless. eat carbs and no fat on lift days. eat no carbs and fat on rest days. go work out. that is it imo.

i need to make a list of starchy veggies and start keeping those around. that is my weak point right now i think.

what is the deal with the cheat and refeed? what kind of stuff should i be eating and when? on saturdays, the day after my lift day? should it be carbs and pasta and stuff or am i back to eating candy / beer / cupcakes / etc again?

i know that i need to be refeeding but i am not sure what/when that is and should be . . .

The primal plan might be the best way for you to go, take all the thinking out of it, learn the right stuff about diet fat, carbs etc.


i can read his stuff and get an idea of what foods i should be eating. i don't think i need to switch completely. i don't have the food/body education with respect to nutrition, but i don't see that as really preventing me from continuing with leangains.



i'll check this stuff out, and thanks again for everything. i really cant put it into words how much i appreciate the time you are taking to help me, and i know that things are really difficult via the forums, but i am 100% committed, and will see this through til the end, so this won't be a waste of your time. you are actually helping someone get it right for the long haul. i can see myself sticking with LG for years.
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Re: New To SCD

Postby justhamade » June 11th, 2012, 12:45 am


Opticks wrote:so the right things being good carbs within limits on workout days, and less carbs and moderate fatty foods on rest days? i have some sweet potatoes in the fridge that i will start making / eating, and there is brown rice around here. what is the full list again? root vegetables and . . . ?
Easiest way to put it is find carbs that are as low an the inflammatory scale. Info here http://nutritiondata.self.com/help/inflammation

Oats are strongly inflammatory and high glycemic index see http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cer ... sta/5708/2

Yams are mildly inflammatory and low glycemic index http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/veg ... cts/2726/2

Opticks wrote:2 posts ago it was bad for me to eat cheesecake a lot, because even martin doesn't do that. now it's bad that im cutting the fat and calories out of a dessert for the nights i workout...
Cheesecake is bad cause of the sugar not the fat. Dairy fat is pretty good generally, things like butter, ghee, lard, etc. Sorry for conflicting info.

Opticks wrote:i'm not completely interested in that primal stuff as i literally just signed a gym contract so that i could do leangains and "lift heavy things".
Yeah I was confused on what you can and can't do when you said you were unsure about doing a barbell squat.

My recommendation would be do really light barbell squats as a warm up. If the have a smith machine at your gym use that. If you are unsure ask a trainer for help. Make sure your squats are all the way down (ass to calves). http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_art ... hs_exposed

Opticks wrote:everything is easy as cake compared to scd/4hb.
Leangains is about carbs timing. 4HB SCD/Paleo is about food quality. Both are important but are different aspects. Starting leangains IMO does not mean quitting SCD.

Opticks wrote:what is the deal with the cheat and refeed? what kind of stuff should i be eating and when? on saturdays, the day after my lift day? should it be carbs and pasta and stuff or am i back to eating candy / beer / cupcakes / etc again?

i know that i need to be refeeding but i am not sure what/when that is and should be . . .
Re-feed is cheat day, once a week.

Good Luck.
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Re: New To SCD

Postby johnshade » June 11th, 2012, 8:33 am


I think you're getting a case of ADHD around the diet and training. It's totally normal when we want to make a change but rather than just follow one program you're looking for a magic bullet and searching out endless details on every protocol. The fitness community is full of conflicting information on the peripheries but at the core we know whats good and bad.

I saw your pictures. The reason you're not getting much of response on the BB forums is b/c you're not a body builder. You're better off learning the basics of barbell training first. None of this is to knock you dude. It's completely commonplace but you need to stop overthinking it. If you need to ask why cheescake is different than avocado or coconut oil, then you should read more on paleo/primal dieting. Robb Wolff's book "the paleo solution" is a great primer.

We always want the shiny new object in the room and IF can look like that to some. Trust me, it doesn't mean you can eat whatever you want. You have to learn the basics of proper nutrition. That is much more useful goal than counting calories.

WRT training. Focus on Hypertrophy. You need to build lean muscle mass. The best way to do that is getting on Starting Strength.

So in short
1. Learn the basics on Paleo/Primal eating
2. Learn on how to use barbells. Follow a lifting program that is not your own
3. Utilize IF in a rational manner
4. Don't overthink it.

Good Luck
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Re: New To SCD

Postby Opticks » June 11th, 2012, 12:12 pm


johnshade wrote:I think you're getting a case of ADHD around the diet and training. It's totally normal when we want to make a change but rather than just follow one program you're looking for a magic bullet and searching out endless details on every protocol. The fitness community is full of conflicting information on the peripheries but at the core we know whats good and bad.

I saw your pictures. The reason you're not getting much of response on the BB forums is b/c you're not a body builder. You're better off learning the basics of barbell training first. None of this is to knock you dude. It's completely commonplace but you need to stop overthinking it. If you need to ask why cheescake is different than avocado or coconut oil, then you should read more on paleo/primal dieting. Robb Wolff's book "the paleo solution" is a great primer.

We always want the shiny new object in the room and IF can look like that to some. Trust me, it doesn't mean you can eat whatever you want. You have to learn the basics of proper nutrition. That is much more useful goal than counting calories.

WRT training. Focus on Hypertrophy. You need to build lean muscle mass. The best way to do that is getting on Starting Strength.

So in short
1. Learn the basics on Paleo/Primal eating
2. Learn on how to use barbells. Follow a lifting program that is not your own
3. Utilize IF in a rational manner
4. Don't overthink it.

Good Luck

Sounds GREAT! Thanks!

I went searching for Primal Nutrition info and can't find any . . . could you help point me in the right direction?
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Re: New To SCD

Postby justhamade » June 11th, 2012, 1:25 pm


johnshade wrote:I think you're getting a case of ADHD around the diet and training. It's totally normal when we want to make a change but rather than just follow one program you're looking for a magic bullet and searching out endless details on every protocol. The fitness community is full of conflicting information on the peripheries but at the core we know whats good and bad.

I saw your pictures. The reason you're not getting much of response on the BB forums is b/c you're not a body builder. You're better off learning the basics of barbell training first. None of this is to knock you dude. It's completely commonplace but you need to stop overthinking it. If you need to ask why cheescake is different than avocado or coconut oil, then you should read more on paleo/primal dieting. Robb Wolff's book "the paleo solution" is a great primer.

We always want the shiny new object in the room and IF can look like that to some. Trust me, it doesn't mean you can eat whatever you want. You have to learn the basics of proper nutrition. That is much more useful goal than counting calories.

WRT training. Focus on Hypertrophy. You need to build lean muscle mass. The best way to do that is getting on Starting Strength.

So in short
1. Learn the basics on Paleo/Primal eating
2. Learn on how to use barbells. Follow a lifting program that is not your own
3. Utilize IF in a rational manner
4. Don't overthink it.

Good Luck

A much more succinct answer than mine ... thanks.
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Re: New To SCD

Postby Barbii_ » June 11th, 2012, 4:44 pm


Ok Justhamade, I messaged you. But I have found this online http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw40.htm and wonder which HIIT plan to follow. I saw a sprinting one and then another one mixing up alot of different excersizes.
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Re: New To SCD

Postby Barbii_ » June 11th, 2012, 6:19 pm


I also found this Paleo list of foods, http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw40.htm

What do you think? Not good? It seems fishy to me, way too many sugary fruits

I found this one, http://desertcrossfit.typepad.com/Paleo_Food_List.pdf
and I like this one, but not sure if it looks good.
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